Arguments before the Committee on Patents of the House of Representatives Part 8

Mr. FULLER. My original role, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, was as one of the members of the Bar a.s.sociation of New York, and as chairman of the committee to express to you gentlemen all the efforts that had been made and the most extraordinary result that has been accomplished from conflicting interests in getting up the framework of this bill, and to say on behalf of a number of the conferees, we will call them--the American Publishers' Copyright League, the America Publishers'

a.s.sociation, the National Academy of Design, the Fine Arts Federation, the Music Publishers' a.s.sociation, the American Library a.s.sociation, the Print Publishers, the Engraving Copyright League, the United Typothetae, and the National Typographical Union--that they felt that a great achievement had been reached in getting the framework of this bill in its present condition. It is in such shape now that when anything is the matter with it we know where to apply the remedy. In the present chaotic condition of the copyright laws it would require an X ray to find where the mistake was and how to remedy it.

I did not intend to say more than a word, but the suggestions made by the last speaker, Mr. Pett.i.t, are of so vicious a character--not intentionally so, but they show precisely how a good bill can be made bad--that I am going to extend my remarks for the five or ten minutes required to point out why they should not be regarded at all.

For instance, take section 3. Our friend wants to alter that, and it is absolutely unalterable if justice and common sense are to prevail. All that section says is that the copyright shall extend to all the copyrightable component parts of the work copyrighted, any and all reproductions or copies thereof, in whatever form, style, or size, and all matter reproduced therein in which copyright is already subsisting.

If there is no copyright subsisting to keep a man from singing my song through a phonograph, there is no harm done. If it is subsisting, he must pay the penalty, and the courts will ultimately determine that.

The question is now before the courts. It seems to me strange that any court should hesitate to say that a man who not only copies my notation, but who actually reproduces the music, the sound, should not be required to pay me for that privilege. If a man engraves my music and sells it by the sheet, he is a counterfeiter, and I can get money from him and punish him, but if he does more than that--if he completes that counterfeit to the extent of the reproduction of the actual sound that the composer had in his brain when he put it there--they say he has not imitated. That question is before the courts. Do not touch it.

Do not touch it. This new law makes it certain for the future, but do not endeavor to touch the past. Let the courts decide what the present law is.

I say that the present law will protect these gentlemen from that piracy--because it is the ultimate form of piracy. It goes further than the reproduction of the composer's music sheet. It reproduces the sound. So that they have taken everything from the music man when they reproduce it on the disk. Therefore I say leave this provision in the bill: "And all matter reproduced therein in which copyright is already subsisting." Do not touch it.

In section 18 my friend (Mr. Pett.i.t) wants to have the disks copyrighted. Mr. Bonynge put his finger right on the point of that proposition, and perhaps it is unwise for me to say anything further.

That is a patentable device, and it has been patented, and there is nothing original on that disk--nothing original to the company that makes that disk. The company has borrowed it or bought it or stolen it from somebody else, and they want to copyright that. For heaven's sake, let the copyright stop somewhere.

Mr. Bonynge said: "Would you prevent the man who sang into your phonograph, or talked into it, from singing or talking into any other?"

Certainly not. It is not an original production. It is not the work of an author or composer or artist. There is nothing intellectual about it, except that it is scientific, and the scientific part of it is protected by his patent. The reason I am so emphatic about that is that when you endeavor to put in the ideas of patents and the protection of inventions into this law you dislocate it and disarrange it.

Senator LATTIMER. The musician may memorize that music, and may entertain an audience with it, but he can not sing it into a phonograph; is that it? According to your position, as I understand it, the singer may take the music of Mr. Sousa, commit it to memory, and may stand before an audience and entertain the audience with Mr.

Sousa's music and reproduce it to the audience, but he can not reproduce it in a phonograph?

Mr. FULLER. If he has paid Mr. Sousa for the privilege of that public performance. But he can not, at the same time, under the payment for the privilege of a one-night stand, sing it into a phonograph and give it to a million people all over the country.

Mr. BONYNGE. And he can not give that public performance unless he has paid Mr. Sousa his royalty?

Mr. FULLER. No.

Mr. MCGAVIN. Would not the copyrighting of this phonograph record give the musician, say Mr. Sousa, double protection? He already has the protection of the copyright on his sheet music, has he not?

Mr. FULLER. Yes.

Mr. MCGAVIN. And he would have the further protection of the copyright of the music as it goes into the phonograph, would he not?

Mr. FULLER. No; it is the talking-machine people who want a copyright on that, and to hold it against the original composer.

Mr. CHANEY. I did not understand Mr. Pett.i.t that way.

Mr. FULLER. Mr. Sousa is ent.i.tled to it, whether he prints his music on a sheet of paper or whether he prints it on a disk; but the man that prints it on the disk is not ent.i.tled to it. That is all.

Mr. BONYNGE. He has not originated anything.

Mr. FULLER. No.

Mr. BONYNGE. Except that the disk is a patentable thing, and on that he has a patent.

Mr. FULLER. Yes. The bill is a compromise, and one which every lawyer here and every lawyer who was at the conference thinks he can better; but it is the best that could be had to protect and satisfy all the interests. It has been stated that perhaps none of the interests are entirely satisfied. If that is true, it is the best kind of a bill.

There are only two kinds: The bill that is perfect, the one that satisfies everybody--and there is none such; and the one that satisfies n.o.body, because n.o.body has had injustice done.

Mr. SULZER. Mr. Chairman, I move that two copies of the proceedings of these hearings be printed, one for the Senate and one for the House.

Mr. CHANEY. I second that motion.

(The motion was carried, and the committee thereupon adjourned until to-morrow, Thursday, June 7, 1906, at 10 o'clock a.m.)

COMMITTEE ON PATENTS,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

_Thursday, June 7, 1906_.

The committee met at 10 o'clock a.m., pursuant to adjournment, conjointly with the Senate Committee on Patents.

Present: Senators Kittredge (chairman), Mallory, and Latimer; Representatives Currier, Hinshaw, Bonynge, Campbell, Chaney, McGavin, Sulzer, and Webb.

Mr. PUTNAM. Mr. Chairman, Colonel Olin was next upon the list of those who were to speak for particular groups in the conference. Colonel Olin partic.i.p.ated in the conference as counsel for the American Publishers'

Copyright League, and I think that he tends in his remarks to express something of the sentiments of some others of the publis.h.i.+ng group.

STATEMENT OF STEPHEN H. OLIN, ESQ.

Mr. OLIN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, a number of different bodies, mainly publis.h.i.+ng and reproducing bodies, which partic.i.p.ated in this conference, thought it proper, in view of the dignity of this occasion, the unprecedented meeting of the committees of the two Houses, that they should collectively say in very few words what they all thought of this bill, that so they could best serve the committee, so they could best provide that nothing should belittle the force of the language of the President or the clearness of the presentation as to the bill made by the Librarian.

These bodies who have authorized me to speak in their behalf in this matter are the Academy of Design, the Fine Arts Federation, the American Publishers' a.s.sociation, the American Publishers' Copyright League, which two bodies include practically all the publishers of the United States; the United Typothetae, which include all the great employing printers of the United States; the Music Publishers'

a.s.sociation, some forty-two music publishers who, by habit, not only represent themselves but those musicians who rely upon them for protection; the Photographers' League of America, the Print Publishers'

a.s.sociation, which two bodies represent largely the ill.u.s.trating interests of the country; the International Typographical Union, which, as the committee knows, represents the typesetters and printers; and finally the American Library a.s.sociation, wish me on their behalf to say that this bill in its present form has their substantial approval.

It is understood that suggestions of modifications as to detail may be made by these organizations individually through the Librarian of Congress; and I submit their signed paper to that effect to the committee.

Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that this simple statement on behalf of these bodies carries a very strong prima facie argument in favor of this bill. The greater part of the effort of the authors of this bill has been to provide in that field of copyright which Congress has already bounded and established, and which the existing law creates, a reasonable and orderly regulation; to provide against these conflicts and uncertainties and difficulties which the repeated amendment of the law has brought about.

I think everybody would, further, be glad if there could be such a bill as most men could read with some intelligence; that would not need not merely a lawyer, but a copyright lawyer, to interpret. I think most men would be glad, furthermore, in view of the importance of international copyright, if it were such a bill as an intelligent foreigner could understand and an intelligent foreign lawyer could advise about, and such a bill as that the people who are used to it here would thereby be taught something of the general copyright law and could better understand foreign rules. But at any rate, these organizations whose names I have read to you represent, with some few exceptions, roughly, the whole body of men interested in the actual working of the law. Most of them, I think, except those who are purely authors and creators, like the arts a.s.sociations, have at some time or other been on each side of a copyright controversy. In their business some of them are owners of copyrights and desire to enforce their copyright as far as possible, and most of them are also desirous at times of using literary or artistic matter which is protected by copyright, and they desire that the law shall be precise, so that they can understand their rights and not unwittingly be guilty of offense.

So, for all these reasons, it seems to me that when they come to you and say, substantially, "This law is satisfactory to us," you may be sure that prima facie there is a law here that is an improvement on what at present exists, and which, on the whole, will give a reasonable and sane regulation of this most important matter. And of course if any of them come to you with special ideas as to improvement, you will hear and pa.s.s upon them for what they are worth.

I am going to leave that without any argument, because it seems to me the fact itself is persuasive and that it must impress this committee with the substantial value of this bill that has been presented.

There is one thing which the committee will naturally scrutinize with great attention, and that is every provision of this bill which in any respect seems to extend the field of copyright as Congress has previously bounded it; that is to say, which gives copyright upon some new article, or extends the term of copyright, or gives copyright to people who did not formerly possess it, or which in any degree limits the right of the public as against the copyright owner. The bill, I think, makes no very large incursion into that region, but it is that region which, I am sure, this committee will princ.i.p.ally wish to examine. With your permission, I shall briefly speak of those things which occur to me as to such extensions.

First of all, the bill does extend the privilege of copyright to preventing the reproduction of musical sound or spoken words by machinery. That was spoken of before the committee yesterday. All that I can say about it is that this body whom I represent, although some of them have special interests in it (and they wish to be heard on it hereafter), in general look upon the matter as the circuit court of the United States in the second circuit looked upon it in their last decision on the subject, as being a matter germane to the copyright law, relating to the same kind of rights that Congress has. .h.i.therto protected, and that they see no reason why such rights should not hereafter be properly protected; and they respectfully refer the committee, so far as their suggestion goes, to the special information and advice of those on both sides of the question who have the greatest interest in it and the greatest capacity to inform the committee in regard to it.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you give the citation of the decision that you have mentioned?

Mr. OLIN. I can hand it to you. A printed copy of the decision was handed to me yesterday. It has not yet been reported.

Mr. CHANEY. That was the decision that was distributed yesterday?

Mr. OLIN. Yes; that is the one.

The CHAIRMAN. Unless there is objection on the part of the committee, we will have this decision put in the record.