A Report of the Debates and Proceedings in the Secret Sessions of the Conference Part 44

The motion of Mr. CLAY was agreed to, and the resolutions were laid on the table.

Mr. SMITH, of New York:--I would inquire whether any action has been taken under the order of the Conference for the printing of the Journal from day to day. It is very important that we have these Journals, that we may know exactly what has been done. No gentleman can carry all our proceedings in his memory.

The Secretary made a statement to the effect that he had not found time fully to complete the Journal, or to arrange for its being printed under the rule requiring that secrecy should be preserved; that the Mayor of Was.h.i.+ngton had proposed to have the printing done under a supervision which would secure its non-publication by the press, and that various reasons existed why the order of the Conference had not been complied with.

Mr. SMITH:--Then I hope the order will be complied with to-day. It is very important that each member should have a copy of our daily Journal. I certainly expected one this morning. I will not make a motion now, but if these copies are not furnished, I shall move the appointment of a committee to secure their future publication.

Mr. DENT:--There was a vote pa.s.sed upon this subject. It may have been in the absence of the Secretary.

The PRESIDENT:--The Conference is informed that the Journal shall be published as soon as possible.

Mr. BROCKENBROUGH:--I have two amendments which I shall offer. At present I desire to have them laid on the table and printed.[4]

[Footnote 4: I suppose these amendments offered by Mr. BROCKENBROUGH were never printed; certainly no printed copy of them was ever distributed to the members of the Conference, and they were never inserted in the Journal. In preserving my notes, I naturally a.s.sumed that I could rely upon the printed copies distributed to the members, for the various amendments offered. At the period of writing out these notes communication with Mr. BROCKENBROUGH is impossible, and I am obliged to omit farther notice of his amendments. I am not even able to state the subjects to which they referred.]

The PRESIDENT:--The Conference will now proceed to the consideration of the order of the day, which is the motion to reconsider the vote rejecting the subst.i.tute offered by Mr. SUMMERS, for the second section of the articles of amendment reported by the committee.

Mr. McKENNAN:--At the request of one of my colleagues I would ask a postponement of the vote upon my motion of reconsideration for the present. It will produce no injurious result, and I think myself we had better hold this amendment subject to the future action of the Conference.

Mr. SUMMERS:--I will not withhold my consent to the postponement. But I hope the members of this Conference will consider my amendment, and give it their attention when it comes up again.

Mr. GUTHRIE:--If we pa.s.s Mr. SUMMERS' amendment, we should pa.s.s by the consideration of the whole section. I think that is the better way.

Let us now proceed to the consideration of the third section in the article of amendment proposed by the committee.

The PRESIDENT:--Such will be taken as the pleasure of the Conference.

The third section was read.

The PRESIDENT:--The third section is open to propositions of amendment.

Mr. GUTHRIE:--I move to amend this section by striking out the words "by land, sea, or river," occurring after the words "or transportation."

Mr. GUTHRIE'S motion was adopted without a division.

Mr. GUTHRIE:--I now move to insert after the words "during transportation," the words "by sea or river."

Which motion was also agreed to without a division.

Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k:--I now move to amend the third section by striking out all after the word "give," in the second line thereof, and inserting as follows:

"to Congress power to regulate, abolish, or control, within any State, the relations established or recognized by the laws thereof, touching persons held to service or labor therein."

SECTION 4. Congress shall have no power to discharge any person held to service or labor in the District of Columbia, under the laws thereof, from such service or labor, or to impair any rights pertaining to that relation, under the laws now in force within the said District, while such relations shall exist in the State of Maryland, without the consent of said State, and of those to whom the service or labor is due, or making them just compensation therefor; nor the power to prohibit or interfere with members of Congress and officers of the Federal Government whose duties require them to be in said District, from bringing with them, for personal service only, retaining, and taking away persons so held to service or labor, nor the power to impair or abolish the relations of persons owing service or labor in places under the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States, within those States and Territories where such relations are established or recognized by law.

SECTION 5. Congress shall have no power to prohibit the removal or transportation of persons held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the United States to any State or Territory thereof where the same obligation or liability to labor or service is established or recognized by law; and the right during such transportation, by sea or river, of touching at ports, sh.o.r.es, or landings, and of landing in case of distress, shall exist; nor shall the Congress have power to authorize any higher rate of taxation on persons held to service or labor than on land.

Although it may not be strictly in order, yet, as a part of my plan, I wish to bring forward a subst.i.tute which I shall offer to the seventh section of the committee's article, which, if adopted, should be numbered

SECTION 9. Congress shall provide by law, that in all cases where the Marshal, or other officer whose duty it shall be to arrest any fugitive from service or labor, shall be prevented from so doing by violence of a mob or riotous a.s.semblage; or where, after such arrest, such fugitive shall be rescued by like violence, and the party to whom such service or labor is due shall thereby be deprived of the same, the United States shall pay to such party the full value of such service or labor.

I offer these in separate sections, in order not only that the vote may be taken upon each one separately here, but also when the same questions come before the people. The first section of my amendment, as I understand from every quarter, sets all opposition at rest; all are willing to agree to it. This may be adopted and the others rejected, which could not be done if the original section was adopted.

The other sections conform to the language of our present Const.i.tution, and for that reason I think they will meet with more favor. Each subject is thus made to stand on its own merits.

The PRESIDENT:--The question will be taken upon each section of the subst.i.tute proposed.

Mr. JAMES:--I propose the following as a subst.i.tute for the first section of the amendment offered by Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k. It is, I believe, the same as that proposed in Congress by the Committee of Thirteen. I understand, also, that the Committee of the House of Representatives are about to subst.i.tute it for what is known as the ADAMS Proposition.

We all have the same purpose in view, to negative in express terms the right of Congress to interfere with the inst.i.tution of slavery within the States. I present the amendment because I think it expresses the purpose in better language.

SECTION 1. No amendment shall be made to the Const.i.tution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic inst.i.tutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

Mr. CHASE:--This amendment would be limited in its application to the States. Congress would still have power in this respect over Territories.

Mr. GUTHRIE:--The report of the committee has been agreed upon after much discussion, and printed. We all understand it, and I hope we shall adhere to it without any alteration. If we begin to adopt these amendments no one can tell where they will carry us.

Mr. JAMES:--My proposition is offered as an amendment to that offered by Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k.

Mr. GUTHRIE:--So I understand; but his amendment is proposed as a subst.i.tute for the third section of the article reported by the committee. I object to the whole of it.

Mr. RANDOLPH:--Do I understand that the question now is upon subst.i.tuting Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k'S amendment for the committee's report.

Mr. JAMES:--No. It is upon subst.i.tuting my proposition for the first section of Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k'S amendment.

The vote upon the amendment offered by Mr. JAMES resulted as follows:

AYES.--Maine, New Hamps.h.i.+re, Vermont, Ma.s.sachusetts, Connecticut, New York, and Indiana--7.

NOES.--Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Ohio, Illinois, and Kansas--13.

And the amendment was lost.

Mr. WOOD:--I must enter my dissent from the vote of Illinois.

Mr. FOWLER:--I have an amendment which I offer to the subst.i.tute proposed by Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k--

Mr. RANDOLPH:--I object to it as out of order. Let us take the vote upon the various sections of Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k'S proposition. If they are rejected, then these amendments may all be moved to the committee's report.

The PRESIDENT:--I have already decided that the subst.i.tute is open to amendment.

Mr. RANDOLPH:--Then I will appeal from the decision of the Chair.

The PRESIDENT:--I will state the ground of my decision. It is true, as claimed by the gentleman from New Jersey, that if the propositions of Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k are _rejected_ these amendments may be moved to the sections reported by the committee. If, on the contrary, they are _adopted_, or either of them, so far as they are adopted they must stand as the order of the Conference, and are no longer subject to amendment. I understand the Parliamentary rule in such a case to be well settled.

A somewhat confused debate here arose, when Mr. RANDOLPH withdrew his appeal from the decision of the chair.

Mr. BALDWIN:--I move to amend the proposition of the gentleman from Ohio, by striking out the words "nor shall Congress have the power to authorize any higher rate of taxation on persons held to service or labor, than on land." I do not think these words are appropriate in a provision of the Const.i.tution.

Mr. HITCHc.o.c.k:--I supposed the Conference would understand my purpose.

It was to subst.i.tute my three sections for the third section of the committee's report. I did not suppose this series of amendments would be offered. For the present, I will withdraw my amendments.