Arguments before the Committee on Patents of the House of Representatives Part 43

Mr. HERBERT. Since our names have been linked all the time, I thought he intended what he said to apply to me also.

Mr. PETt.i.t. I would like to say to Mr. Cameron in regard to his statement about the Victor Company and Mr. Sousa, that whenever we have used Mr. Sousa's music, or rather whenever we used his band on Victor records, we always paid him for it--that is, we pay Mr. Sousa for playing.

Senator LATIMER. I want to bring out one point in connection with that. In making these records, if I understand, now, Mr. Sousa has a band that represents him, playing these pieces, and you pay for that music when you get it, or do you not?

Mr. CAMERON. Whoever employed Mr. Sousa pays for it.

Senator LATIMER. Then it is paid for when you get these records?

Mr. CAMERON. I do not wish to be misunderstood. We can take and do take one of Sousa's marches and have another band, with which Mr.

Sousa is not connected, play, and we make the record; and in that case Mr. Sousa does not get any of the compensation whatever. None of that goes to him.

Mr. WEBB. But you do not advertise it as being played by Sousa's band?

Mr. CAMERON. Not at all. We advertise it as Sousa's march.

Mr. WEBB. You advertise it as a march by Sousa as a composer, but played by somebody else as the executant?

Mr. CAMERON. Yes. That is recognized as such a valuable thing to the composer, that John Philip Sousa has been to the office of the American Graphophone Company, in years gone by, with advance scores, and asked them to send them out, to advertise and help John Philip Sousa along. He will not deny it. Moreover, we are flooded to-day with artists that are struggling on the lower rounds of the ladder, that are not as high up as John Philip Sousa was a few years ago, either, begging us to do the same thing for them. I mention that to show you that even John Philip Sousa, before he got where he bestrode the musical world like a colossus, even he recognized the advertising value of the talking machine to a composer. We are not doing him such a great injury.

Mr. SOUSA. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that the gramophone, these talking machines, are really of very recent date. I believe the gentleman will agree with me when I say that if we go back fifteen years or sixteen years ago, we looked upon them purely as a toy. I remember the first one I saw here in this city where I was born. A gentleman had a man bark into it, and it was a remarkable thing to hear this thing bark----

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I would suggest, Mr. Sousa, that you are taking up this gentleman's time. Unless you want to specifically deny something that he has said, or ask a question, it is hardly fair to him.

Mr. SOUSA. If I ever did allow the Gramophone Company to do it, it was because I did not think it was as important to them or to me as I do now.

Mr. CAMERON. Please do not confuse us with the Gramophone Company. It is a different thing.

Mr. CURRIER. Do you wish to deny that you are a musical colossus?

[Laughter.]

Mr. SOUSA. No. I will admit that. [Laughter.]

Mr. CAMERON. One thing more in regard to the const.i.tutional question which I mentioned. I shall submit, or the company I represent will submit, a written brief. You will be addressed on that point much more ably than I can address you by Mr. Walker, who will succeed me.

I want, in closing, however, to emphasize one fact which my predecessor, I understood, was told was unnecessary. With all deference to the chairman, who said so, I disagree with him. That is the fact that not only was the American Graphophone Company and the talking-machine interests not notified, not only were these conferences--quarterly conferences, we might call them, held in secret----

Mr. CURRIER. I think you gentlemen had better all make it clear, when you speak about these conferences, that you do not refer to committees of Congress.

Mr. CAMERON. No, sir; we do not. We refer to these star chamber proceedings, before this bill was introduced into Congress.

Mr. CURRIER. By whom? Not by anybody connected with the Congress?

Mr. CAMERON. By Herbert Putnam and the men he brought around him. That is by whom.

Mr. CURRIER. I wanted it made clear that you were not referring to any committees of Congress.

Mr. CAMERON. Every effort was made to keep us from knowing that any such bill was under way. It was not merely an act of omission, but it was an act of commission. That is not all. Not only were the American Graphophone Company not notified, but, if you will turn to the list of those present, you will find that one of those whom I have mentioned here, the representative of the Victor Talking Machine Company, at the third stage of the proceedings, was present--as what? As one of the musical publishers of the country, representing the Victor Talking Machine as one of the musical publishers of this country. See how close the a.s.sociation is.

The gentleman who follows me will point out that a.s.sociation a little closer. I think by that time the committee will realize that my suggestion of a close cooperation between the National Phonograph Works, the Victor Talking Machine Company, and the Musical Publishers'

a.s.sociation is well founded.

I thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, we will meet to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock to hear Mr. Walker.

Mr. BURKAN. I represent the publishers and the composers. An attack has been made here, and we feel that we should get at least several minutes to answer the charges that have been made.

Mr. CURRIER. You will have some time to-morrow. We meet at 10 o'clock to hear Mr. Walker for an hour. After that you gentlemen will have an opportunity to be heard, undoubtedly.

Mr. CROMELIN. I was to appear here to-day for the manufacturers, in behalf of the talking machine interests, and was to follow Mr.

Cameron. If the chairman pleases, I should be very glad to continue the first thing to-morrow morning, and let Mr. Walker follow.

The CHAIRMAN. I could not consent to that, because I understand that Mr. Walker has been notified that he will be heard the first thing to-morrow morning.

Mr. CROMELIN. I think Mr. Walker will agree to that.

Mr. WALKER. It will be quite consistent with my convenience to let this gentleman precede me for whatever time he wishes.

The CHAIRMAN. How long would you want?

Mr. CROMELIN. Probably fifteen minutes to half an hour.

The CHAIRMAN. With that understanding, Mr. Walker, he will precede you.

Mr. WALKER. Yes, sir. And I am to have an hour after that?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

(Thereupon the committee adjourned until to-morrow, Sat.u.r.day, June 9, 1906, at 10 o'clock a.m.)

COMMITTEE ON PATENTS,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

_Sat.u.r.day, June 9, 1906_.

The committee met at 10 o'clock a.m., conjointly with the Senate Committee on Patents, pursuant to adjournment.

Present: Senators Kittredge (chairman), Clapp, and Smoot; Representatives Currier, Dresser, Bonynge, Campbell, Chaney, McGavin, and Sulzer.

Mr. PUTNAM. I have one or two communications, Mr. Chairman, in effect addressed to the committee, which I offer for the record.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be inserted.

The communications referred to are as follows: